Posted by: Andy Rice | November 1, 2007

Weighty Matters in the Olympic Classes Debate

This is Part 4 of a series of articles looking at the Events and Equipment that will be contesting the Olympic Sailing Regatta in China next year. On 9th November, just a few days from now, the International Sailing Federation will vote on which 10 Events will constitute the Olympic Regatta in Weymouth 2012. An interesting task, considering that there are currently 11 Categories, so ONE MUST GO. This is your opportunity to have your say, by taking part in the SailJuiceBlog.com Olympic Classes 2012 Survey. More than 1,000 sailors have already shared their views. Read on, and then if you want to add your voice to the Survey, which closes on Monday morning, 5th November, click on the link below,

Olympic Classes Survey

now, on to the main article of the day…

CREW WEIGHTS IN THE OLYMPIC CLASSES

I can feel it in my bones. The topic of crew weight is really going to get you going. I know this because of the huge amount of feedback that has flooded into The Survey on this very subject. Some say there is nothing for the little people to sail, others say there’s nothing for the big people. All depends on your point of view, I suppose.

So I decided to take a look at the competitive weights currently operating within the 11 fleets. Now, before you remind me that Qingdao is just around the corner and that every Olympic aspirant is on an emaciation diet for the anticipated light – or complete lack of – wind in China, here’s what I did.

Firstly I asked a few sailors, people like Darren Bundock in the Tornado and Carol Cronin (former top American Yngling sailor) their views. But beyond that I took a look at the official website for the ISAF World Championships in Cascais earlier this summer. If you go to www.CascaisWorlds2007.com, you’ll see that under the Entry List for each class, the sailors have provided their crew weights in kilograms.

Now, the good thing about Cascais was that it was predicted to be windy. Do you remember the slogan for the event?

“The wind is calling…”

Well, as it turned out, the wind wasn’t just calling, it was howling! So I have made the assumption that sailors would have wanted to perform well in the anticipated strong winds and their crew weights would be representative of a normal Olympic cycle building up to an Olympic Regatta where any type of wind could be expected. It’s certainly the case that many sailors went on a crash diet immediately after Cascais in a bid to lose as much weight as possible before the Olympic Test Event in Qingdao a month later.

So I took the weights of the top 10 finishers in each class World Championship at Cascais, and did a few sums.

Below is a table of the Men’s and Women’s Classes, where I’ve shown the average (mean) weight for the top 10 in each fleet, plus the full range of weights in the top 10:

Men’s and Open Olympic Classes (Top 10 in Cascais)

Laser – Average Weight: 81kg. Weight Range: 78 – 84kg
Finn – Average Weight: 100kg. Weight Range: 94 – 110kg
RS-X - Average Weight: 73kg. Weight Range: 68 – 79kg
49er Helm - Average Weight: 71kg. Weight Range: 68 – 77kg
49er Crew - Average Weight: 77kg. Weight Range: 72 – 80kg
470 Helm - Average Weight: 65kg. Weight Range: 60 – 67kg
470 Crew - Average Weight: 71kg. Weight Range: 65 – 75kg
Tornado Helm - Average Weight: 73kg. Weight Range: 69 – 79kg
Tornado Crew - Average Weight: 76kg. Weight Range: 71 – 79kg
Star Helm - Average Weight: 94kg. Weight Range: 80 – 110kg
Star Crew - Average Weight: 102kg. Weight Range: 90 – 115kg

Women’s Olympic Classes (Top 10 in Cascais)

Laser Radial - Average Weight: 66kg. Weight Range: 58 – 70kg
RS-X - Average Weight: 57kg. Weight Range: 52 – 62kg
470 Helm - Average Weight: 57kg. Weight Range: 49 – 65kg
470 Crew - Average Weight: 67kg. Weight Range: 61 – 70kg
Yngling Helm - Average Weight: 67kg. Weight Range: 60 – 79kg
Yngling Middle - Average Weight: 67kg. Weight Range: 55 – 74kg
Yngling Crew - Average Weight: 66kg. Weight Range: 60 – 82kg

Now, there are a few things you should know. Not all of the weights were accurate. In fact, how would you know the accuracy of any them? But I’ve had to make the assumption that for every sailor that overestimated his weight, there was another that underestimated.

However, I had to remove some weights where they were just plain nonsense.

For example, all of the British weights gave the same statistics for every sailor in a given fleet. To give you an example, all the British Laser sailors come in at a standard 1.80 metres tall, and 80kg in weight. All the Finn sailors are 1.90 metres tall, and 90kg in weight. Perhaps this is the secret to Team GBR’s success… they’re CLONING their sailors!!!

Meanwhile, the Italian team appeared to have been put on a starvation diet, with the Italian women’s 470 sailors registering just 93kg between them, while among all the Italian Star crews only one weighed in excess of 80kg. Who ever said too much pasta makes you fat?

Then there was Greek Finn sailor Emilios Papathanasiou, whose registered weight was 69kg! Hmmm… 69, seems a bit arse-about-face. I wonder what Emilios was thinking about when he was filling out the entry form. I have made the bold assumption that perhaps Emilios, if he hadn’t been otherwise preoccupied, meant to write 96kg.

Now, while the numbers above are quite interesting in themselves, how do the numbers get on as ‘a family’? By which I mean, how well do the Olympic Classes share the burden of giving every size of human being given a chance at being an Olympic sailor?

For this, I’ve taken the same basic data and put them into the tables below.

First the Women’s Classes. Just click on the thumbnail to see it in full size:

Women’s Olympic Classes - Crew weights of top 10 in Cascais

Now the Men’s Classes. Click on the thumbnail to see it in full size:

Men’s Olympic Classes - Crew weights of top 10 in Cascais

Did you struggle to see that, even at full size? The trouble is, it covers such a broad range of weights it’s hard to fit it all in. So here’s a close-up of the main bit of the chart:

Men’s Olympic Classes - Crew weights of top 10 in Cascais

What do you think? Does everyone get a fair crack of the whip, from the midget to the goliath?

Some basic observations:

  • The more people on the boat, the greater the spread of potential weights. Not exactly rocket science, this observation. But an important one. Where the Yngling has come off badly in other comparisons of recent days, the three-woman keelboat does very well here. The Star does pretty well too, with a wide range of weights catered for at the top end of the range.
  • As Darren Bundock pointed out to me, with twin trapezing it doesn’t matter so much whether the weight is in the helm or the crew, provided your combined weight matches the fleet trend. This is an advantage the Tornado and the 49er have over the 470, for example.
  • Not surprisingly, the singlehanders provide the least weight variation. Interesting to note that the Laser, which based on my Bums On Seats analysis is far and away the most popular Olympic class, is also the one that covers the smallest weight distribution. Perhaps this speaks of the high level of competition in the fleet, but perhaps it also speaks of the limitations of a strict one-design class, where you have to mould your body around the boat. In a Finn, on the other hand, with the possibility of varying your mast stiffness and sail shape, you have the potential to match the power of the boat to your crew weight.

Meanwhile, we’re reaching the final few days of the Survey. We’re well past 1,000 responses, but it would always be nice to have more. I see a concerted effort coming from one particular Olympic class, judging by the names and email addresses coming through to my SailingTalk Xpress Newsletter, but other fleets have been surprisingly quiet considering what is at stake next week in Estoril. Time to drum up support for your cause too?

You’ve got until Monday morning (GMT) to complete the five-minute Survey.

Responses

Not quite sure about those weights.. had a look at the cascais site… looks to me like a lot of radial girls are less than honest when it comes to weight just like those sneaky brits… like anyone in the top 10 being 58kg.. sure.. I think most of the girls are at least 65 or more.. so i reckon the average weight was probably a little higher than the 66 it came out at…
plus there is the fact that girls like to underestimate their weights..

Agree with what you say in the article. I was at the cascais worlds in the laser and the weight range was between about 78-85 for the laser. Do you know what the average weight for a male/women is? wouldnt this be useful to figure out where each class would fit into groups, like heavyweight or lightweight male boat. Also the RYA filled out our heights and weights when they entered us but I am roughly 180cm and 80kg!

It’s so cute that you are almost as obsessed about weight as the Olympic sailors themselves are. And I do mean obsessed daily weigh-ins make it a fact of life and theories abound. Having the Star crews weigh in in their underwear in the race office also proved some amusement for the ladies too. Thankfully and oddly we weighed in in a ladies toilet, Pam and her assistant had to sit in the loo everyday for 2-3 hours doing our weight-in. As one of the sailors at the Worlds I can tell you that the weights given were submitted by our NAs months before the event and yes, we did did change our weight to prepare for the windy conditions. I remember poring over the weights before the events and calling my team to discuss various posted crew weights and try to figure out if there was any advantage to the combinations. Also interesting to note is that in the Yngling fleet at least, in some cases the heaviest person in the range and the lightest person were sometimes on the same boat. Although taht isn’t surprising in a 2 person boat it is more so in a 3.

We also have to consider the supposed global nature of the olympics and yachting. How many Asians can sail a finn or star. Bugger all I would suggest.

A little misled methinks Andy about weights. Immediately springs to mind in the Tcat that Mitch claimed 85plus kilos as a helm, Johny Lovell was big (sideways) and Sebbie Gottfried claimed 90 kilos. It does make a difference in th Cat - downwind. The fixation with weight appears pretty unhealthy, as that should dismiss either Star or Finn - both excellent Olympic classes, but not enough fatboys as a fair representation of the population to be proportional for the Games???? If the idea is to make the Games less weight dependent then let’s all go to fast boats where weight is critical only to conditions - a more interesting arguement as modern trap boats are usually much less weight dependent. A’s comment seems very relevent!!

Andy

While the existing classes have done a reasonable job of covering the weight issue, sailing has moved on technically

The games have slowly reacted to that situation with the addition of the 49er and the trials for the womens skiff. But lag by still including the 470 and Laser, Radial classes.

The single handers have moved on with classes such as the Musto Skiff, RS700 and Int Moth foilers. Such classes would allow better weight carrying and also project a better picture of modern dinghy sailing.

What to do about the keelboats? A modern boat might help, mixed crew - Laser SB3 or similar or relegate them to a match race status.

Gerald New

In response to A’s comments about asians and Finns, I just had a look and there were more Indian sailors at the Finn worlds than the Laser worlds. As to Sebastien Godefroid I believe his Finn fighting weight was somewhere around 100Kg+

There is no single hander for lighter men . You need to be around 80kg to be competetive in a laser which certainly isn’t small , infact it is pretty big if you ask me !

Interesting comments about Finn guys being big…30 years ago a Finn sailor was considered a front 5 rugby union forward…..20 years ago, a back row player…..today….just a girly back

As both sports have become more athletic…we are being to see what big really is

Very interesting and well written article! What predictions do you have for the 2008 Regatta?

I lied on my weight/height form. I’m sure many others did too.

Nevertheless, interesting analysis

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