SailJuice Blog

[...] for the Ts to free themselves of the sheltered-workshop of Olympic class yachting. Just think, no need to go to Medemblik or Kiel. Why not try the Hobie route of major events in Tahiti, Fiji, Guadeloupe or even Garda? Sounds nice [...]

Bundy

Yes, it’s so simple to get a slate that would give a fair represntation of the breadth of the sport and cover M&W etc.

But the problem is the control freakery of the ISAF and their methods of voting to protect existing situations.

What they did not anticipate is that such a is that a bright light would be focused on the insider dealing, and the ISAF could find this is no longer acceptable to the people who pay for all this.

No longer just a few newspaper/magazine footnotes weeks later when they have all packed up and gone. In the era of the internet you just cannot carry on this way, all is revealed, instantly.

The ISAF were required to have a forward looking view - the event is in four years time - to take the sport forward in its one big showcase, but that is obviously too big a stretch for them.

Just how out dated will the event look by then?

Ges

Bundy is a fantastic sailor, a great guy (according to those who know him, I’ve mainly seen him when he’s zapping past!) and the dumping of the cats was a terrible decision that will leave sailing and the Games the poorer.

However, the claim that 25% of sailors sail cats, which is so often repeated, is surely so far off the ball that it must hurt the case that cats can make.

In the UK, cats make up 4.5% of boats that enter one design or restricted class national titles (check the Y & Y Nationals Attendance Table). That’s not even counting the IRC offshore type yachts that turn out in their hundreds to the Fastnet, Cowes or RTI. Given the fact that yachts have much bigger crews, there is no way that cat sailors can be 25% of sailors since once we add in yachts, they don’t even seem to be 4.5% of boats racing seriously.

The same sort of thing applies in the USA, where only one cat class makes the top 22 in the list of biggest national titles. Cats make up something like 4% of the boats in those top 22 classes, and of course that cat class (H16) has only two crew whereas many of the dinghies and yachts have three or more.

The US and UK are the two biggest national federations, so even although cats are bigger in other countries there seems to be very little chance the 25% figure is right. John Williams, head of the US Sailing’s Multihull Championships Committee, has publicaly said that he has NOT been able to find any proof of the 25% claim (despite making enquiries) and he has therefore asked people to stop quoting it.

This isn’t nit picking, it’s trying to look at reality.

And life isn’t too good for that mono sailor in the Laser/470/49er weight bracket. They’ve got 3 times the medals to go for, but about four (or more) times the number of sailors competing for them. Why is that unfair to cat sailors?

None of this is meant to say the cat should be dropped. It’s an amazing boat to sail, the sailors are brilliant, and the decision to drop leaves a vital part of the sport out in the cold.

This is not cat bashing, it’s trying to point out some facts because surely the truth is what we should all be trying to reach so that we can avoid disasters like this in the future. A selection process based on more open and quantifiable methods is what we want, and quoting incorrect figures is not going to get us there.

I agree with Bundy. It’s a crying shame, a travesty. The cat/Tornado should stay in. Furthermore, they should have dropped the windsurfing. Apart from the RSX can anyone think of a racing class (at world level) in windsurfing? And by that I mean proper racing, not reaching up and down near the beach prior to the next round of posing in a wetsuit. Windsurfers do not naturally progress into racing and hence they are not representative in the racing fraternity. Who’s the most famous windsurfer in the world? Robbie Naish - he didn’t go to the Olympics. Around the world, dinghy and cat sailors are racers, and should continue to have the Olympics to aspire to. And another thing - what is one of our (GBR) former Olympic windsurfers (top bloke, Barry Edgington) sailing these days? Not a board, the finest dinghy of all - International 14!

My selection would have been to drop the two windsurfers and replace with Women’s double skiff.

Then there’s the keelboats to consider, but don’t get me going on that subject….

MJ

“Can anyone think of a racing class at world level in windsurfing”

Anyone who knows anything about windsurfing, or even Google, can find out.

The Raceboards Worlds (Argentina for Open, Sicily for Youth and Masters ) got 106 boards.

The Formula class got 145 for the Women/Youth/Masters worlds (Europe) and 60 for the men (Korea).

The new Kona class had sailors from 12 (IIRC) nations at its Gold Cup (restricted to the top 50 sailors) and has 550+ on the ranking list.

The Techno 293 got 175 for its worlds.

IMCO got 45 for the Open Worlds, don’t have time to check Junior and Masters.

None of these 600+ boards sail reaching courses, and I bet you won’t find 600+ female skiff sailors at worlds.

It is interesting to note that at the 2007 Sail for Gold Regatta in Weymouth that all classes except the 49er and Tornado got in 9 races while these high performace craft only got in 5 (and they were squeezed in) because they couldn’t race when it was too windy.

And yet half the sailing world seems to be crying that these boats will save the sailing event at the Olympics and are sailing’s best media showcase because they are spectacular.

Sailing on TV is only ever going to be spectacular when it is windy. Even dedicated sailors get bored watching light weather races. What is the message when the best boats that sailing supposedly has cannot actually sail in extreme conditions?

The only examples stated on this blog on memorable sailing races are about the personalities and the personal battles. The classes are irrelavent. My non sailing friends thought the 2000 Ainslie/Sheidt showdown was just plain weird, even though it produced massive media attention.

Fast boats are great in a straight line. There is definite wow factor in watching them whizz past. But watch them racing, that’s just dead boring…

Joe public cannot even grasp a simple race. How are they supposed to understand complex upwind and downwind tactics? The solution has to be to keep it simple - in this regard the singlehanders can be likended to the 100m of the sailing event.

If 49ers or Tornados are used at the Games then perhaps they should be for sprint races - 5 mile reach, but again that would only work in a decent breeze. The public would ceratinly understand that and it would be eyecatching.

Its a shame that this is the situation that ISAF has forced, it would be an even greater shame if, as Darren says in his article, multihull sailing were to split from the world of monohull sailing. Being a monohull sailor, in my experience it has been great to race alongside the multihulls at events, they add a new dimension to the sport and bring a different ethos to sailing which has greatly enhanced the diversity of the sport (something ISAF could really do with understanding!). Perhaps a better suggestion would be to press national governing bodies to remove the current ISAF administration or remove ISAF entirely, before it does even further damage to the sport. It clearly is not representing the views of sailors, and must be judged solely on the basis of its ability to strengthen the foundations of the sport, something it has failed massivfely to do, by now failing to include a womens olympic high peformance class, and by its removal of the multihull.

Hello Nick, wake up! Nice to be able to complain between naps isn’t it?

If you had paid attention the ISAF experts wanted the women’s skiffs and the multihull!

The national governing bodies representatives made the final decision in the council and “failed” in your opinion.

Try to pay attention for once!

Bravo Darren I am a fan multihul navigator and it is so crazy that decision . So make every thing yu can do to organize this Tornado world championship inn all countries where there are a lot of fans for Catamaran s and Tornado !!!

Come a lot in France if you can nice places to sail as yu know.

I am going to buy a Tornado soon !!!! So if I can race with profesisonnals in a circuit , so nice like we do in F 18 !!!!

We will help you in all to make real this championship with a lot of spectators and good coverage too.

regards a fan of you too

Yes Darren,

I really agree with your opinion: if it works, it would be an oportunity to “free” multihull sailing as you said, and if it doesn’t work, at less it would force ISAF to react and to considerate cat world…

We just have not to forget one thing: if an “international multihull associate federation” is created, how will it work at a national level. For the moment, national federations are ofter very important and if we have to develope independant national multihull federations, it could be a hard work.

In my opinion, the solution would be to affiliate the existing national federations to this expected new international organisation. But would the ISAF give his agreement to the national federations?

The goal is to try to create someting that would permit to professional sailors to express and to promote their activity, but to no-professional to pratice at a good level too. I mean, if you need to go to Fidji or South Africa when you what to race, it would really be to expensive for non professionals to developpe the activity.

I havn’t got the solution, and I think your Idea is really good, but multihull comunity has to find a solution that preserve the interests of both professional and no-professional racers.

Darren for pres!

Regards from France,

nn, it is you that should wake up. It was the ISAF executive committees decsion to change the rules on voting (at the last minute) that allowed for the voting and deal making of the national representatives which led to the womens class coming last in the voting, and for the unbelieavble situation of the loss of the tornado from the olympics. It has done a disservice to sailing and all those who sail. Whether you ‘like tornadoes’ or not there is no question, in my mind, that removing them from the olympics has left the sailing at the olympics in a sorry state.

And womens sailing has been left in the dark ages. Skiffs for all i say!

I feel perfectly comfortable waking from my naps when it is saling at stake.

Andy, great blog!

With the chance of upsetting a few people (Sorry) here are my views.

Sailing has moved on, full stop. ISAF haven’t moved on for years and have allegiances to classes from their era.

The whole booting the Tornado out is actually the right move, however it’s been made for the wrong reasons. Cat’s should be in the Olympics, they have a phenomenal following and thus deserve a share of the limelight. The Tornado is an awesome boat, no doubt but it is too expensive and has been in the Olympics for too long. The world of cat sailing has moved forward, the F18 open class is by far a better alternative which will give much better media coverage and following. How many tornadoes do you see sailing regularly??

In the rest of the classes, the same applies for the 470, Star and Finn, the Yngling is painfully slow and dull to watch. All should go.

In place of these classes, bring in boats or formats that are really interesting and spectacular but easy to follow with short races so you don’t put off the public.

For me the classes should be:

49er Mens Double
29erXX Womens Double
RS/X Mens Windsurfer
RS/X Womens Windsurfer
Laser Mens Singlehander
Laser Radial Womens Singlehander
F18 Open Cat
A Class Open Singlehanded Cat
Int Moth / Musto Skiff Open High Perf Singlehander
Melges 24 Open High Perf Keelboat (Match Racing?)

If ISAF want to increase the profile of sailing (isn’t that what they are paid to do?) then why put dull things infront of the public. I had friends who didn’t sail watching and commenting on how great the 49er looked (without prompting), I didn’t hear a single person saying “wow, how cool was the 470 racing!”.

What we need to do is realise that if TV is to be involved, boats should be on for a maximum of 2 Games rotations. What this will do is allow for the development of new more exiting ideas, look at the new / improved classes available over the last 8 years. It will also allow a broader range of sailors the opportunity to compete.

We have new technology, lets use it!

So Nick if you were awake please explain the change in voting procedure, what happened?

What prompted that?

Are you refering to the 3 delegates wasting their vote on the muktihull?

nn

Ct 249,

“And life isn’t too good for that mono sailor in the Laser/470/49er weight bracket. They’ve got 3 times the medals to go for, but about four (or more) times the number of sailors competing for them. Why is that unfair to cat sailors?”

Apparently mono sailors have no medal to go for either as there is zero medals for cats… 3 times 0 is 0 Ct 249

bear with me nn but you’ll be the one who has to stay awak with this one. Our good reporter Andy brought to our attention that:

“There was a last-minute change in voting procedure, from a what-would-you-eliminate voting style to a what-would-you-keep vote, which opened up the way for tactical voting, and appears to have been exploited by some Council members for exactly those purposes”

Let me explain the significance of this. In a what would you eliminate system, where you were a supporter of the Tornado, you will try to find the voting strategy that best supports the inclusion of the Tornado. You will then try to determine which class you feel is the weakest, you will vote for the weakest class, by ‘guessing’ which class you think most people will think is the weakest, lets say its the Star. If everyone follows the same strategy they will all vote for the class they think is weakest, regardless of what is their favourite class. Because it is irrelevant what class you want to keep, there is less scope for tactical voting, you only have to determine one strategy, that of the weakest class. People are much less likely to discuss who they would eliminate than they are who is their favourite, strange social phenomenon called . The class with the most votes is then eliminated, second most is eliminated and so forth. We are then left with the situation whereby the best classes are left in, in a sense by default.

In the other system, the who would you keep system. You stilll have one vote, however the thing you have to determine is who you will vote for, every other class is in a sense irrelevant. However you want to do everything you can to strengthen the relative position of your own class. It then becomes in your interest to find other people who support your class, this is where the tactical voting comes in. If you support the Star, you can then go and find out who you could vote for who wouldn’t vote for the star normally but is willing to exchange his vote for his favoured class for the Star, perhaps because he doesn’t have a particular favourite class, so it is not as vital for him to make a positive choice. If you were really intelligent (read corrupt) you could find every individual who would vote to eliminate the star in the first system and get him to vote for it in the other system because he doesn’t particularly care about the Star but will vote for it, if he were offered an incentive. This is something the United States government is very good at doing in United Nations votes.

Still following me. Now why the Exectuive Committee might decide to do this i’m, not sure, if i were really naiive i’d say they could never possibly have thought that the second system was so opent o corruption and that they would never have chosen it had they known what the potential outcomes might be. You could choose to believe this. It might also be that ISAF is run by a bunch of old cronies who believe that doing your “friends” a favour is more important than strengthening the sailing world in general. You could choose to believe this, i’ll leave it up to you to decide which one i believe.

ISAF screwed up, and sailing is the weaker for it.

No amount of lobbying was/is going to stop this train. The writing was on the wall a month previous to the ISAF boat selection, with the RYC and US sailing’s respective position boats for 2012. Its not about the sport,rather about “best chances for medals” and similar abhorrent non-sportive crap. I even wrote US sailing a nice letter advocating the excitement and athleticism of the Tornado, (and got lip-service). RYC is not possible to e-mail… The fact is Multihulls are weakly represented in these groups, and most of us have felt it reflected at the level of US Sailing’s tepid support of Alter cup events. So my advice is grab gramp his walker, and take a slow stroll down memory lane-you might beat the Ynglings to the end of the jetty (and have a great vantage point if they get there before sundown…

R wrote: “It is interesting to note that at the 2007 Sail for Gold Regatta in Weymouth that all classes except the 49er and Tornado got in 9 races while these high performace craft only got in 5 (and they were squeezed in) because they couldn’t race when it was too windy”.

Wakey wakey “R”. I was at SfG. The race c’tee didn’t give Tcats the slot early, then we got abandonments when we shouldn’t have done. The cats went and carved up the harbour when it was super windy - when other classes were abandonned. your comment is about bad race officer decisions based on the fact that half the 49ers couldn’t get to the start line because of lack of skill at world level, not because of the boat. It is your type of less than well informed comment that makes progress so diffficult.

I know this picks up on the point a little late, but I only just found this thread.

ATC, I was referring to the present state of medals, because I was referring to a point Bundy made using the present tense.

The dropping of the cat is a tragedy and a complete stuff up, we all know that, but we won’t bring it back by saying the mediumweight dinghy sailors are over-represented when they really are not.