A day for open letters, this one from former ISAF president Paul Henderson to his successor Goran Petersson. Henderson’s letter, published in Scuttlebutt.com, will offer some comfort to Petersson in the wake of all the criticism levelled at ISAF since Estoril.
Henderson suggests that sailing is not really under any threat of being thrown out of the Games. This may be true, but does this mean that ISAF should only do the minimum required to keep the IOC happy? Or when it has opportunities to pull the sport more into line with the IOC’s wishes, it should seize them with both hands? It won’t surprise you to know that I subscribe to the latter theory.
As the previous ISAF president, Henderson is bound to defend the workings of ISAF Council. Otherwise he would have changed the process. It’s not as though he was averse to change, as those who worked with him will attest! He says that he found the Events Committee to be as political as ISAF Council. That may be so, but there is strong evidence that in Estoril the Events Committee was at least thinking in long-term strategic terms, rather than for short-term, tactical gain, such as we’ve seen by some Member National Authorities.
The solution to minimising committee politics is right under ISAF’s nose, and Henderson can take credit for having unwittingly provided the solution. He is rightly proud of the fact that he dragged ISAF kicking and screaming into the Internet Age, overseeing the launch of a website that was the envy of other sports organisations and instituting electronically managed programs like ISAF Sailor.
The Facebook generation, the Olympic sailors in their late teens and 20s, expect to be engaged in debate and decision-making electronically. As the SailJuice online survey of late October demonstrated, sailors are only too willing to provide their feedback when asked. Using the ISAF Sailor database already at its fingertips, it would be so easy (and cheap) for ISAF to ask the sailors for their views. To those who argue that this would be about as useful as asking turkeys to vote for Christmas, I would suggest that we already have that scenario with the Member National Authorities. So we would be no worse off than we are now.
If a poll of the sailing community is seen as a step too far down the road towards democracy, then at least give the athletes due representation on ISAF Council.
Paul Henderson’s letter is reproduced below:
December 7, 2007
Mr. Goran Petersson
President
International Sailing Federation
OPEN LETTER ON OLYMPIC SELECTIONS
I am in receipt of the letter sent by the Royal Yachting Association (RYA) with regard to the process and results in the selection of the Events for the 2012 Olympic Games. This selection always is controversial and political as it is with any organization which tries to accommodate over 125 MNA’s in such a diverse sport as Sailing. The RYA uses IOC historical arguments to make their case to question the Council decision (as posted in Scuttlebutt 2491). I would like to clarify what happened as I remember them.
The IOC Program Commission (PC), led by Franco Carraro, was charged, as a sub committee of the IOC Executive Committee, to make suggestions on the program of events for future Olympic Games. Their overall mandate was to keep the Olympic Program to 28 sports, 10,500 athletes, and 300 Events. They were also asked to evaluate the inclusion of new sports which would necessitate reducing events including the dropping of some sports in total.
The Program Commission tabled their report in August of 2002 with the following recommendations:
Sports to be added:
Several sports were assessed for inclusion and discarded. The three sports that were eventually put forward for consideration were:
Rugby 7’s
Squash
Karate
Sports to be dropped:
Three sports were put on the bubble:
Baseball
Softball
Modern Pentathlon
Sports to be reduced:
Many sports were asked to reduce their events and athletes:
Boxing
Canoe/Kayak
Equestrian
Wrestling
Athletics
Rowing
Swimming
Sailing
It should be noted that Sailing was in very fine company and it was never suggested that our sport be deleted from the Olympic Program. What was recommended by the PC to the IOC Executive was that Sailing be reduced from 11 to 10 Events and from 400 to 360 athletes. The PC also suggested that this “could” be achieved by deleting keelboats. It was not mandatory as their suggestions were for other sports but just an observation.
All the sports so designated reacted very strongly against any erosion. ISAF immediately responded especially with regard to keelboats. It was pointed out that the PC was wrong in their cost evaluation as the installations for the keelboats did not increase the cost of the Games as the installations required for keelboats were needed for the Paralympics Events. It also was pointed out that the IOC wanted the high-profile athletes to be able to compete and that our top sailors gravitated to the keelboats. The media likes to focus on well known names and I would suggest that the media likes heroes and are not overly interested in fibreglass and dacron.
The IOC Executive Board immediately responded and withdrew any suggestion of deleting keelboats and left the responsibility of the choice of events solely to ISAF. The IOC delayed any reductions to 2012 and a compromise was reached whereby Sailing would be reduced to 10 Events and 380 athletes so as to accommodate new sports.
The final chapter in this scenario happened in Singapore in 2005. The IOC voted on all 28 sports and to remain “Olympic” it was necessary to get 50 + 1 of the IOC Members to agree. The IOC, in their wisdom, deleted Baseball and Softball keeping Modern Pentathlon. They then voted to add two new sports and none were added. This has the result that only 26 Sports and less than 300 Events and 10,500 Athletes will be in London 2012. ISAF tried to get the IOC to delay the shrinking of Sailing but were held to the original decision even though the UK is the premier sailing nation today.
The next chapter will be addressed by the IOC’s new policy on sport. The IOC will pick 25 core sports which will be confirmed on the program and then select 3 other sports to fill to 28. Sailing should be confirmed in the 25 and therefore dispelling the myth that we will be replaced. It should also be noted that although Sailing does not get high TV ratings it is one of the most viewed sports on the Internet.
Having been on the firing line for the selection of Olympic Events and Equipment for 7 Games over 30 years it is interesting to see that nothing has changed as controversy and self-interest continues to rule. One other observation is that I always found the Events Committee equally a political body as the Council. Being a political animal also I would like to continue my bias by saying I like Cats and Skiffs as they must be sailed as Kinetics are of minimal advantage. I also trust that ISAF will continue to have inclusive events that allow all sizes and genders to compete especially for the larger sailors.
I trust the above is informative and if there is any need for more clarification, please ask.
Respectfully submitted,
Paul Henderson
would suggest that the media likes heroes and are not overly interested in fibreglass and dacron.
exactly. That was just so 1960’s
i disagree with ummmmmm
most observers can remember the ainslie/scheidt dual in 2000. not many can tell you the class. Most will remember the three blonde girls in 2004, but who could tell you what they sailed and how many triangles they had to sail to win gold.
there is only so much you can write about fibreglass and dacron (or even carbon fibre and kevlar) and bore the public stupid, but when you write about heroes people get interested.
sailing is NEVER going to capture the TV market, so lets but as the pope says we are good at internet as well as written reporting and for that you need heroes.
the pope is spot on.
I should write more……
I totally agree with Henderson and for that matter Scott macloud that it is all about the people, the heros and the story.
However we are all missing the point as the story and the images that go with it can only be better with more interesting equipment, it will never change the storys or the heros but it will change the images that come with them, which makes those storys all the more powerfull. Look at curling as an example it got massive coverage but something you might take up or sponsor or follow some more or download a video ?
lastly the equiopment is what inspires people to take up a sport imagine a young girl in a country thats only sailing program revolves around olympic classes, they see the games on telly, or the internet and perhaps might look at sailing as a sport but what do they get to sail a 470 ? Match race a slow dull keel boat ? Does that inspir e them to go sailing or do they get on a moutain bike ?
Surely the Olympic equipment should represent at least close to modern thinking, curently boats outsid ethe games are far cooler than those use in it, 49er and tornado included.
Imagine if Cycling was stuck in a similar constaint and the finn equivelent was the penny farthing challenging and skill full o yes but would any one atually want to go ride one for fun ?
We are already sailors and thus we like sailing and racing and we all know that once we are racing it matters not a bit what we are sailing, in fact sometimes the more quirky the more interesting it is. BUT what does this do to enspire other people to get involved? And if it dosnt matter what type of boat we sail or race, why not do it in modern fast exciting boats, why not sell the sport to the wider public as a cool modern exciting sport?
> Imagine if Cycling was stuck in a similar
> constraint
But it is… there are far faster and more efficient ways to travel powered by pedals than the conventional cycle. The recumbents and things are far more efficient and faster. Even the more extreme riding positions with the conventional cycle are banned. The race cycle is *exactly* like the Finn – a fundamentally old and slow design optimised to the limit.
Most cyclists, like most sailors, prefer the old, slow and conventional. Even in the extreme UK market sales of high performance classes are slumping, and its the moderate performance boats that sell in numbers. People just don’t want to sail in modern fast exciting boats. They like to sail in modern moderate performance boats.
How can you say most cyclists prefer the old and slow? How can you possibly prove that? ICU banned HPVs and bents an age ago only becouse the current champs was thoroughly beaten. That decision is still enforced due to exactly the same fear of anything different we see in sailing. Progress is dangerous, let’s keep to what we know. If ICU had decided to allow some development, you would have seen Lance Armstrong on a bent in no time. He said so himself. Faster and more comfortable obviously counted more than tradition and fear of something different.
I think you should have a nice and long look at yourself in a mirror while asking yourself wether you want to see progress in sailing.
As a female I would love to see some Development in sailing. If you read my letter in Y&Y you will see my comments on the latest decision. The boats that have been selected for 12 certainly arent inspiring the girls I know to continue with sailing. Yes the media like the heros but we arent going to have heros of the future if some of the best youth sailors are put off our sport! Why the hell would we want to waste our lives sailing older slower boats when we have been brought up sailing skiffs?! I think i will have a career and earn some money!
“the images that go with it can only be better with more interesting equipment”
that is a point of view of the person watching. This argument is all about media appeal which is not the same thing as sport take up. Whether a class appeals to young girls is a very different argument to what the public actually want to watch – and will understand.
Some of the best pictures I have seen in the past few years are of the ’slower’ boats in the Olympics, but they are certainly not boring. A 49er drifting in 1 knot is no more impressive than a Star, Finn, 470 or Tornado. Put them in 25 knots plus and they all become spectacular.
As keel boat sailors make up the vast majority of the sailing population, I am sure they would rather watch keelboats=, and of course vice versa.
In know what I would rather watch racing and it is NOT 49er, 29ers or Tornados
Sorry, but on what basis do you say there are more keelboat sailors than any other sector of the sailing population? Statistics provided from anywhere apart from your opinon? Having researched the subject it looks like windsurfers greatly outweigh keelboats, and it looks as though, by number of boats sold, multihulls and two man dinghies are about equal, while there have been more single-handers produced. The whole point of the Olympic classes argument is that the Olympics should represent ALL sectors of the sailing community AND show off the modern face of our sport – Goran Peterson is on another star if he thinks, as his Press Release stated, that the classes shown represent anything other than out and out bias, misrepresentation and lobbying based on national interest. I am a multihull sailor, and I like keelboats too. I like dinghies as well. So lets have them ALL represented and lose some of the doubling up. IF Ben Ainslie can win the Laser class and the Finn (described as heavy against IOC proscription) then there is no need for one of these classes. Nor do we need a 470 AND a 49er. Nice boats all, but come on – do you really think that 25% of the sailing community (multihulls world-wide) should be thus disenfranchised. PS Modern, Mr Peterson, does NOT equal the STAR born in 1911. Choose a keelboat but not an antique. Ridiculous Council decision – MUST BE OVERTURNED
it’s no wonder that multihull sailors have disenfranchised themselves with false statements, incorrect assumptions and outdated opinions such as these.
Sorry what was false, incorrect or outdated?
Specifics please
It seems to me that the core arguement is being driven underground by henderson. This is NOT about proceedures, the big “I am”, “I was” or any of the political stuff. It IS about people who love sailing wanting to present an exciting and dynamic sport to the world through the medium of the Olympics. It is also a fact that the sport progresses, skills change and living in the past is not what the IOC or television want. We have been accepted for years as a fringe sport. We now have a chance through modern design to become a core sport. The old designs have been presented, tried and failed to attract media coverage. We either accept that the days of sailing as an Olympic sport are probably numbered, OR we try something new and adapt the “packaging” to show a better vision of sailing to the world. Come on henderson, this is no representation of sailing. It is not strong, it is a load of out of touch ole boys with their heads in the sand hoping the demise they are presiding over will not happen under their stewardship, then they can have even more good ole days when sailing was an Olympic sport.
This point may well also address the viewpoint of interest is to be found by the individual. Its not – it is a matter of survival that we are in a competitive market place selling our sport, and the salesmen and women are being asked to sell second rate out of date products to the general public.
[...] Check it out! While looking through the blogosphere we stumbled on an interesting post today.Here’s a quick excerptI am in receipt of the letter sent by the Royal Yachting Association (RYA) with regard to the process and results in the selection of the Events for the 2012 Olympic Games. This selection always is controversial and political as it is … [...]
[...] Henderson wrote an interesting post today on A History Lesson from HendersonHere’s a quick [...]
Simon, you claim multis represent 25% of sailing worldwide. Are you aware that at least one mover in the multihull scene has stated publically that he can find zero evidence for that claim and has therefore asked people to stop using it?
You asked for stats. I have checked the;
Yachts and Yachting Nationals Attendance Table plus the IRC nats;
Sailing Anarchy annual survey of the top US OD class national titles attendance;
Australian championship attendances;
French FFV national rankings (not counting offshore ODs or offshore yachts)
Ignoring the junior classes (which are overwhelmingly dinghies) and with a bit of estimating for the number of crew on the big boats, I come up with;
7051 crewed dinghy sailors;
2,790 singlehanded dinghy sailors
3,516 small yacht sailors (Dragons, J/24s, FFs etc)
2,647 cat sailors
3,403 IRC (UK and Oz) and OOD yacht sailors (not counting sailors from Fr, or US rating boats, or US Farr 40s, J/35s, IRC, J/30, Express 37, the pro crews of the TP 52s or most supermaxis, or the Australian trailables, etc etc etc etc sailors.
Based on those figures – which counts each Paper Tiger sailor and each Sprint sailor at the nationals, but leaves out the 25 crew of Alfa Romeo and the rest of the vast majority of sailors on national-level big boat events like Hobart, Fastnet. Bermuda, Key West etc – cats are half as popular as you claim.
They are also much, much less popular than crewed dinghies – having 470s and 49ers is not doubling up, but justice for the huge number of sailors that sail crewed dinghies compared to the other Olympic disciplines.
Re “The whole point of the Olympic classes argument is that the Olympics should represent ALL sectors of the sailing community AND show off the modern face of our sport”
If we look at the biggest sailing country, the UK, we’ll see that cats are NOT growing in popularity, while skiff types are losing numbers. The same seems to be happening in the USA’s most popular cats. In Australia, cats are a fraction of their numbers in the ’70s and ’80s (the race that used to get 300+ cats now gets as few as 14). Skiff are still largely restricted to the 3 cities where gambling and liquour laws help pay for them.
There is no justification in the numbers I can see for any claim that skiff and cat sailing are the future. In the biggest and strongest market, the growth is in slow polyethylene boats – they came in well after the cats but now get as many sailors. In the market where skiffs came from, it’s the Laser classes that are attracting record Nationals fleets, not the skiffs.
re “the salesmen and women are being asked to sell second rate out of date products to the general public.”
No, what is selling – the item that the public are actually interested in, as demonstrated by the fact that they are buying and racing them – are the simple slower boats. The fast boats are not selling strongly, are not sailed in as many countries, and just don’t interest most people – and in some countries it is they, not the slow boats, that are a shadow of their former selves. What is out of date is the idea that speed sells……that’s an ancient idea that facts clearly show is wrong. For the sake of our sport, some people should throw off their blinkers and look at reality.
PS – none of the above means that cats should not be in the Games; of course they should. But some of their backers should look at the justification for their claims. And I should have written that in the UK, cats at nats are not growing in popularity any faster than the sport as a whole.
PPS – I didn’t include boards, but in most major sailing countries their racing numbers are quite small – for example the biggest class in Australia only got 36 boards last year. They are widespread and bigger in other countries, of course.
PPPS – Please Simon, can you find the basis for the oft-quoted 25% claim?
And when you say that all disciplines should be represented, what about offshore yachts? Shortboards? Tandem boards? Longboards? Freestyle/wave windsurfing? Kites? Offshore multis? 3-crew centreboarders (half as popular as cats in the above count)? Sportsboats? Inshore cruiser/racers? Why do we ignore the talents of an offshore bowman and give scope to a centreboarder crew?
One thing at a time. Lets go with one premise for a start – I don’t take place in any running or skiing competitions but I do run and ski. I suggest therefore that numbers of people actually turning up for races and in particular National Championships is not necessarily a sound basis for comparing activity.
So, I looked instead at the number of boats in each class – and a fair way to start was to look firstly at all the classes of boats listed in the recent issue of ‘Yachts&Yachting’. I went through all of the classes listed and looked at the most recent sail numbers – and where not available searched the relevant class or builders’ websites.
This threw up the statistics that laid a basis to my claim – the most popular boats world -wide (and the Y&Y reports carried mostly International classes – I admit to some error figure in not knowing what various 2 man or singlehanders might be sailed especially in say Hong Kong, but these will not affect the overall picture greatly)
What the figures showed is this:
If you exclude the OPTIMIST and the 420 which are predominantly Youth boats, the most popular thereafter are the Laser 1, Sunfish, and Hobie 16 – all with numbers in 6 figures.
I went through ALL classes both singlehanders, two handers and multihulls and small keelboats and that’s where those statistics came from. If I am not wrong, you will be able to see a formal report detailing these workings and findings not only of myself but others early in the New Year – but to paint a really broad brush just examine the Hobie cat statistics – some 110,000 HObie 16’s 60,000 Hobie 14’s , 40,000 Hobie 18s not to mention Tigers, 15’s, Foxes, 17s, 21s and so on.
So lets assume there are some 200,000 Hobies that have been sold in the past thirty years. Show ME where you get the 600,000 dinghies and small keelboats sold over the last 30 years.
Anyway, you can start to see the point. It is NOT an active racer figure that is being bandied about; it is the figure for numbers sailing cats. Whether you think this is a fair basis for calculations is a moot point !
I am happy to see that you think multis should be involved. Personally I also think that small keelboats should be involved. How to arrange a fair distribution of classes is a thorny issue, there’s no doubt. Is it right to disenfranchise 25% of sailors while having 2 single hander and 2 doublehander dinghies. I think not.
Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year, and here’s to the ISAF councilors doing the right thing and re-examining their decision – it was a poor one.
PS As a multihull addict thought you might like to know that I have also fallen in love with the SB3.
I agree the numbers doing nats is not perfect; if anything I’m sure it discriminates against the more popular classes since those sailors can get big fleets without doing the nationals, and may not want to race in 100-300 boat fleets.
However, the sail number route is extremely innaccurate. For example, some of the Uk builders start at sail no. 500 or more. Another class admits they started at 50. I have been through (on the record) the early days of another class and the sail number overstated actual production by 350 within the first 12 months!
And then add in the classes that sell each sail with an individual number…..I had one craft that had a sail number in the 30,000s. The second sail on the same hull, about two years later, was in the 190,000s. By the time that class ended that form of numbering the sail numbers were something like 300,000 or more, yet as the guy who runs the class I know that worldwide less than 100 are still racing and not many are used for messing around very often.
Another class was reputedly selling some much bigger numbers but doesn’t have sequential numbers – so it would not exist at all if we used numbers. These examples are in boards but the same sort of thing happens in boats.
Jim C checks the numbers from the Y&Y report each year and points out that the sail numbers often bear no correlation to the boats reported sold. A case in point – “ISO – Latest sailnumber was quoted as 1208 in 2002, 1251 in 2003, 1220 in 2004 & 5 and 1207 this year!”
You mention the Hobie cat numbers show 40,000 H18s – but the class report (http://www.sailing.org/21360.php) says only 18,000 exist and only 28 did the ‘05 worlds. How seriously should we take the alleged 40,000 when the class itself claims only 18,000 and only 28 can be bothered to make the worlds? That class had only 5 boats and 18 boats in the nationals of ‘07 and ‘06 in its two biggest countries, by the way. Is a class with 44 sailors doing its biggest two nationals really more valid in boat racing terms than say the Etchells (180 sailors in a recent OZ nationals alone)????
On the other hand, something like the J/24 class often use non-class (ie club or national authority) numbers; I sailed boat 939 in the second year of the class here and I can assure you there weren’t 939 Js in the country. The Micros claim 10,000 boats, have plenty of members, yet sail numbers at the worlds vary from France 13645 to the winner, Poland 77 – which sail number is the right one?
You say “Show ME where you get the 600,000 dinghies and small keelboats sold over the last 30 years”
For a start, all attempts to use sail numbers to assess actual strength are clearly wrong as outlined above. However, Lasers, Laser 2s, Picos, Toppers and Tasars alone will get you over 210,000.
PS; sure I don’t think there should be three 2-person dinghies if it means the cats are out – although I can see why the choice was made.
However, the 470s are very widespread and the IOC report criticised sailing for not being widespread enough, so it has to stay. The Finn is not popular or widespread or spectacular so it should go and the cats can come back in. Simple.
my fault if i misquoted hobie 18 nos. i was working from memory and not going back to my records. True too that sail numbers are not infallibl, but hobie 16 + hobie 14 alone are 150,000 +. hobie 16 worlds just finished in fiji, hardly the easiest plave to get to…how many entrants – 185 again from memory – it’s late. i was at guadeloupe worlds in 2000 320 entries; i organised 16 europeas in 2001 in greece – again not terribly easy to get to but 118 entries even though Tiger Worlds with another 100 plus had just finished at Garda the week before and there is some cross-over. The hobie 18 is a class now superseded by tiger/f18 – may not be growing in uk phenomenally but still very strong in europe. how many entries f 18 europeans? how many cat entries at texel – 700 + every year. know any dinghy races with that big an entry…..ok round the island in yachts…
as i said it dont disagree that sportboat/keel boats shouldn’t have their place.. you asked a justiification of 25% sailors on multis – not whether they raced nationals or raced at all. i think the hobie figures alone justify the amount – no way has there been less than 150,000 of them built – which still means you need 350,000 + dinghies + sportboats yup 210,000 lasrs etc fair enough – where are the extra 140,000+ needed if you ignore all other cat classes.
plus hobies tend to have a long life too – 20 year old + boats still ‘litter’ the beaches of the Med and USA.
it doesn’t matter whether they turn up for races or not – the public clearly sees cats wherever they look – because that 25% is no figment of imagination.
Is this argument worth continuing? Go to Calshot, Stokes Bay, Grafham, Rutland, Bala, Rockley, Brighton, Brightlingsea, Sheppey, Weston and check out how many cat are racing. dont compare with ponds where cats aren’t allowed.
Look at any beach or beach club in the Med, Do you see cats or dinghies for hire? What do you think the general public perception is with massive multis breaking records in the news constantly,
Hey maybe its only 20% not 25% no one seems able to find perfect stats. But tell me the % of heavy weight dinghy sailors or womens match racing compares to cats, THere;s no comparison.
But we agree on that anyway. As we agree that Goran Petersson’s idea of the Olympics is a perfect showpiece for modern sailing, right?
all best – lets turn our energies to lobbying ISAF Councillors again and finding a better system for choosing the classes altogether. Ours is one sport where men and women can race fairly alongside one another…we should be exploiting that in this day and age -
simon
Sorry, I still cannot see how you can use a method of counting that has so little to do with reality.
I look at the craft of my family and my brothers’, and see very active boats with no sail number, boards with sail numbers 200,000 less than the number of boards produced in that class, bits of boats that were burned 25 years ago but still count under your measure, boats with “official” numbers that over-estimate production by 200%, and boats with sail numbers that have no relationship whatsoever with the number of that design or class.
Given that and many other illustrations it’s hard to see how it’s safe to assume that sail numbers are anything like an accurate measure of the number of sailors in each type.
The US boating industry body says there was 1.57 million sailboats IN USE in the USA in 2005. That means 400,000 active cats in the USA alone according to your claim. Are yet the two most popular cat classes got only get 68 and 35 boats to the NA titles….a fairly poor turnout from 400,000! Are the cat sailors that apathetic? Surely not – the 25% estimate must be wrong.
I would say that the number of competitive sailors has to be the yardstick….. I don’t think we can count people who once hired a cat as “sailors” any more than the International Athletics Federation equates everyone who can walk as “walkers” or “athletes”.
Nor do your figures provide us with any real estimate of the number of people sailing cats v the others. Okay, there’s lots of Hobies and other cats – but there’s lots of yachts around the world and they take many more people. Unless you have counted every yacht; each Newbridge Navigator, Stilleto, J/28C, Oceanis 390, Magyar, RCOD, each of the 42,000 Beneteaus, each of the 60,000 by the Catalina group (including over 20,000 22s, 27s and 30s), the 15,000 yachts that hold CURRENT US PHRF certificates, each Careel, each other yacht, then you have nothing to put on one side of the comparison.
Same with small craft – have you counted each F2 Lightning? Each Sonnet? Each X Class? Each Pacer? Each Javelin (US version, UK version, and Australian/NZ version)? Each Jet 14? Each Vaurien?
But if go by claimed numbers, we could add in the 500,000 (yes, 500,000) Snark dinghies; the 10,000 O Day day sailors; the 270,000 Mistral Competition windsurfers (not counting the various other Mistrals, just the old Comp), the 132,000 registered Optimists, the original Windsurfers (200,000 sold within 12 years, still in production), the 10,000 Micros, the 16,000 Catalina 22s, the 5,200 Flying Scots, the 50,000+ 420s, the 36,000 Vauriens, the 70,000 Mirrors, the 54,000 Toppers, the 3,830 Corsaires, the 8,000 Vee Jays, the 300,000 Sunfish, the 30,000 Snipes, the 15,000 Lightnings, the Lasers, the 15,000 Raceboards, – that’s over 1.8 million small monohull craft. Add in the rest of them and the big boat (114,000 from Beneteau, Catalina and J alone) and the 80,000 funboards produced per annum, and the mono figures look OK against the Hobies, and the (I think) next most popular classes – the 3,000 F18s (including Tigers), and the 8,000 Dart 18s.
By the way, the Texel (a great race and one I’m lined up to do one day) is tiny compared to some yacht events. It gets about 10% of the sailors of RTI or Barcolona 1,983 boats, about 14,000+ sailors). One of my local clubs gets 150 big yachts and about 1200 sailors, from 20 footers to IACC boats, Volvo 60s, Farr 40s, maxis, supermaxis and Open 60s, EACH WEEK in winter.
Massive multis may break news in Europe; not in the US or South Pacific; as a member of the media I’m fairly familiar with it.
I’m from a cat family, so the aim is not to put cats down but to be realistic about their place in sailing – because being unrealistic can only hurt cats.
Simon, I believe that Hobie 16 sail numbers exactly that – Sail numbers – ie every time you get a new sail you get a new number. So they have no great relationship to numbers of boats shipped. I don’t know about the other Hobies.
This is tosh. The thread is not meant to be hijacked by stats. Please guys, your arguements have little or nothing to do with henderson’s statement and history “lesson” or the arguements for any ELITE event – they are arguements for putting on the Olympics as a local event, not as a means to find the best sailors on the planet.
As a comparison, the new F! car racing sensation Lewis Hamilton was asked to race a family saloon by the know all doubters. Result – he was sensationally quick. Would people pay to watch him do that through the year? No – of course not. So sailing is in danger of losing its F1 and the talent developed through that class. That is what the ole boys need to hear, NOT justification by stats for their own reasoning, which by most sailors opinions is deeply flawed.
Well…hum, the production stats may not mean a lot in terms of racing commitment …but possibly they mean much more in terms of potential TV Watchers for the sailing events.
Somebody said that only competitive athletes should be counted : quote
” I would say that the number of competitive sailors has to be the yardstick….. I don’t think we can count people who once hired a cat as “sailors” any more than the International Athletics Federation equates everyone who can walk as “walkers” or “athletes”.
Disagree we all walk , must walk in everydays life, but have no vital need of going to sea in a small sailing boat.
IMHO, there is quite a difference : anyone taking up sailing (even if it is only renting a Hobie cat at some beach club or sailing school in the Med, for just one hour on a sunny and breezy summer afternoon generally with the false belief that a hobie cat cant capsize and is easier to handle than , say, a Laser or a 420) makes some sort of step into the sport.
It dosn’ makes him an expert at all , but gives him some sort of appreciation about how good the
hopeful olympians sailing a similar boat (albeit in perfect racing condition) and makes him potentially interested in watching races and possibly even in starting to race at a local club …
That’s why , still IMHO, ISAF and and olympic organisation should stick to the most mass produced dinghies and catamarans.
After all a true Tornado champion must be able to win a Hobie 16 event in a perfect one design context…ore else he is a perfect boat tuner but lacks something in the basics of sailing (tactics, wind strategy, fitness, vista)…
I haven’t read whole conversation but I would like to give my 5 cents too…
I sail 470 currently and every year there comes new very very talented young sailors, with amazing results from junior classes, who seem to enjoy their new class. Most of the crowd seem to stay in junior classes forever if they don’t have money or feel that they don’t have chances because fleets are bigger and they don’t get ass kicked so much.
Why sailing doesn’t appeal to young people is propably because there is no proper World tour, well-organized events with proper media coverage (news paper reporters and tv cams don’t come to you, you have to come to them!!!) like almost EVERY OTHER DECENT SPORT, and having thousands of different class World Championships everywhere with couple of boats doesn’t make any sense to public. Whose best after all? When you add this to all the time increasing material costs the result is smaller participation. You can see this difference 49er vs. 470 in size of fleet internationally / nationally (if the national fleet even exists anymore!) and how many boats sold in year. Newer classes are maybe a bit more appealing to media, and old classes could be with some minor changes (ie. sailcloth change etc.), but come on: there’s a lot of coverage about Golf in TV (and some people are watching it?), so why not International Snipe then!
I’ll sail whatever I have to (=that suits my weight), so all who love certain class please don’t start flaming. I don’t think that selling dinghies is that good business, so please people, make efforts to establish world tour instead of lobbying your new skiff! I’m not sure after last decisions if ISAF can really organize it…
Dear Chris,
I specifically excluded Youth boats, Yachts and windsurfers from the stats. Sports boats were included. No one has ever tried to justify a figure compared to cruising yachts; the only relevant comparisons surely are btwn dinghies (7 classes represented in the Olympics) and multihulls () classes proposed) Is the argument that difficult to follow?
If non sailors shall look at sailing at the olympics it has to be spectacular!!!
Why does formula 1 attracts people in millions? it´s because its fast, its dangerous, its risky (thats why are all the accidents and overtaking are in slowmotion)
Why does people love to watch “action” sports like mountainbiking, snowboarding etc.
because its fast, its dangerous, its risky!
Watching slow boats race against each other – is, even for sailors as exciting as to se paint dry up! even if we got some “famous” US keelboat sailor or so sitting in the cockpit of a 96 year old keelboat design.
We need to do the olympic part of our sport as fast, dangerous and risky as possible.
And yes – if we choose equipment matching the above it is only topathletes that are able to sail the boats – but olympics are only for topathletes!
If we don´t do it, noone will watch sailing and it will disappear from the olympic circus – why should it stay if noone has a interrest??
So let´s have fast boats, which are hard to sail (Lots of action, crashes and capsizez !!)
Happy newyear
Simon, you can’t exclude “Youth boats, Yachts and windsurfers from the stats” if the claim is that cats are 25% of sailors. I can’t see how that is difficult to understand.
Pete – I sail fast cats and boards. I’m not part of any old boys network; in fact a class I’m involved in running has recently been in serious conflict with our national body. But it is facts that are the best way to make sure we know what it happening rather than what we want to happen or like to think.
And the first people to throw up numbers in this argument was the Tornado class (with the 25% claim) followed by the ludicrous Hobie claim that there were only 12 Star sailors in the US (rather than 800 paid up Star sailors compared to 900 Hobie paid up sailors).